Hantu Laut
Was I wrong when I predicted the Sultan of Perak would not grant a dissolution of the assembly because there were no justifiable reason to do so. In my post 'Anwar: Don't Cut Off Your Nose To Spite Your Face" I mentioned that the Sultan is not likely to agree to a dissolution. Surprisingly, some lawyers believe the Sultan must give consent to go back to the people for fresh mandate without looking at the situation closely.
What are the 59 assemblymen elected for ? Aren't they representatives and voices of the people ? Why must there be fresh mandate when majority of the people's representatives have decided they have no more confidence in the present government. If the people are not happy with the conducts of their elected representatives they have the opportunity to throw them out at the next elections.You just don't dissolve the assembly every now and then or whenever a few slime balls gone party hopping.
First and foremost, we have to respect the Constitution and not use our emotions to justify what we wanted and ignore what the law wanted.The constitution is very clear and have given the ruler flexibility to decide according to circumstances. The ruler cannot be faulted for any decision made as long as he acted in accordance with the law.The Sultan press release here.
The Sultan of Perak Azlan Shah had acted wisely and in accordance with the constitution.Those who said he had not were ruled by their heart, not their head, they based their argument by emotions because they happened to be Pakatan supporters. There were also lawyers who made wilful interpretation of the law, intentionally to confuse and rile up Pakatan supporters into believing that the Sultan had acted unjustly.
Was there a stalemate, chaos or no clear winner in this unpleasant episode ? There wasn't.None of those situation exists to justify a dissolution.
The Pakatan refusal to respect democracy,the Constitution and the decision of the Sultan is going to have a huge backlash on them.The calling of a mammoth rally of 100,000 strong in an act of defiance and show of force speaks for itself the kind of politicians they have in that grouping.
45 comments:
Perhaps the chaos could provide some impetus to kill a few B.A.B.I.
MRSM Kalae Chepo 66/73
How can a majority be formed if the 4 frogs are not legally or rather DO NOT represent their constituents any longer?
Where's that familiar reek of evil issuing from, Sea Ghost? So you opine that decisions governed by the head are "superior" to those governed by the heart? Only an anal retentive closet patriarch would say something like that!
I state my complete & total disagreement with you on this issue.
PR should have requested the dissolution on Tues the 3rd when the majority to BN was not established but signs were there.Just don't get it as to why the dillydally. Fools are they the PR big boys.
Hantu,
You are an idiot indeed. Your hatred for Anwar which is your personal problem doesn't make things right. Look here, what we are talking about is not a defection but abduction and unbprecendented blackmail that can torpedo the nation. With the current impunity, with a scandalous EC, Chief Justice, IGP, AG and now PM, where are we headed? Stupid! I have no doubt that BN will pay the price for this. You need to create an element of hatred in the pple for you to sustain your programmes, now that hatred has been sown, then let's see who will benefit from it. Hateful elements of your ilk who have their peronbal bones to grind shouldn't share with us the end results. The one who is waiting foir tomorrow, tomorrow is nigh!
916 is different from what happened in Perak. PR didn't abudct elected leaders and use the EC to frustrate the elections. PR didn't use blackmail to drop corruption charges against anyone and PR didn't have federal power to use police force to hide people for one week. What happened in Perak is abduction, wanton impunity andf outright criminality where elected leaders had to be abducted, detained and hidden, once the EC was forced to accept Umno's stand, they came out "healed from their back problems" and quit their parties. How can one compare PR's struggle to topple BN to BN's outright criminality and state manipulation? Umno and BN has been poaching electedf DAP and Pas leaders for decades. That's fine if it is done under normal persuasion but read what every moral being including those in BN have said to know what has happened. When PR takes over the federal govt after the next elections, no one should complain that any state that may remain with Umno (read Johor) shouldn't fall. If PR felled on its axe which is a wrong claim in this particular issue, then the blind should know that it is part of God's creation order for the same to fall on their axe. Somalis say "horay u cun dib baa u daran" (Eeating first in illegally will make yours eaten at later day in the same).
hANTULAUT, you hit spot on.After all those same idiots nominated and voted those people into office.why cry foul now when these ADUNs left the so-called PR to became independents..it was Anwar Ibrahim who was going around claiming that BN MPs were joining him and he will form the new federal government before?Was it righteous then or it's right if it's in their favor.Nizar had said earlier that he will abide by whatever the Sultan decides, and why go against it now?The people did not appoint Nizar as MB, the Sultan did.if not for the Perak Constitution Ngeh would have become MB...if not Jamaludin himself, Anwar's and PKR's best choice.Nobody to blame for the political developments in Perak except the stupidity and arrogance of Anwar Ibrahim, PKR and it's supporters who made the wrong choices of individuals to stand in the GE12.The party with least seats got to be MB..think of that. it only shows that pkr in the last GE started with idiots to begin with.these idiots are clearly impaired, deaf,blind and to a degree mentally impaired.
The sultan has indeed the legal right to appoint a new MB. But isn't it his role to provide check and balance to the system? When the system is so damnn corrupted that ADUNs can be bought 20mil each without anyone being prosecuted nor investigated wouldn't the Sultan best play his part by dissolving the DUN??
Yes hantu laut, you are right to say that the assemblymen are elected by the people and thus represents the people's voice/ choice but then again, when these 4 decided to jump ship, did they consult the people they represented. The answer is NO. That's is why the need to dissolute the assembly and let the RAKYAT choose the government they want. This is real democracy
When you asked people to use clear and decent language but you did otherwise for your moderation !
Those who called others idiots are themselves the one ! Siapa makan cili dia akan rasa pedas.
Please note that people voted candidates based along party lines and hence they have to toe the party line.
The Sultan is only a constitutional monarch who is to act in accordance with constitutional convention. Constitutional convention dictates that the Head of the government of the day, as the elected representative of the people, is vested with the right to obtain a dissolution and the Sultan is bound by convention to so dissolve the assembly when called upon. That is precisely why the Agung dissolved Parliament last year when the PM sought the dissolution even though the parliamentary term had not expired. If we go by your logic hantulaut then the Agung should not have dissolved parliament last year as the parliamentary term had not expired and the government was not in crisis.
The issue of whether the Perak government had lost the confidence of th assembly was never tested in the assembly. The mere fact that they appear to be in a minority doesn't automatically disqualify them from government unless a vote of no confidence is taken.
To demand the resignation of the government of the day to be replaced by another government is to usurp the assemblys authority.
The Sultan's role is to safeguard the Constitution and protect the interests of the people. Where the Sultan's action effectively deprives the people of their right to choose their government then it is an act against the spirit of the constitution, if not the letter. The Sultan therefore cannot be right.
Hantu, you are a real moron. Go ask the VOTERS of Jelapang how they feel now. I guess someone with your moral value should think betrayal is alright.
U definitely hav a grudge against Anwar here,bro
Is it bcuz of his 916 "screw up"?
Well.I'll tell u this
If Anwar is power crazy n anti-democratic as u n other UMNO idiots claimed,
then he would hav seized power last year by revealin the names of the 30 or so jumping MPs either in public or in the audeince with HRH Sultan Mizan n he would hav done so w/o takin into consideration the backlash from UMNO n their runnin dogs
No stranger 2 injustice, Anwar would hav expexted UMNO 2 incite chaos n disorder ala May 13 2 halt Pakatan's progress despite the fact that it is the holy Ramadhan month. The 30 MPs would hav bullseyes on their heads had Anwar revealed their names premeturely
But he didn't do that,didn't he?No.
He atttempts 2 seek an audience with PM Badawi 2 get assurance 4 a smooth transition of power b4 obtaining the king's consent 2 form the goverment.
N he enticed the MPs without resortin 2 threats n tons of dirty money.
A far cry from what Najis is doin now.
HL,
Although I see where you are coming from, on this issue, I think you are wrong.
HRH can agree or disagree to "Dissolve" BUT HRH cannot ask the CM of Perak to resign.
Nizar is CM until he resigns OR there is a formal vote of no confidence in a formal sitting of the Perak State Assembly.
Maybe HRH asked Nizar to resign because HRH wanted to avoid more problems but unfortunately by doing so HRH has caused more problems!
you are the idiot, idiot...go suck on najis's cock.
hantu, may you rot in hell!!! you belong to syaitan!!!
Hello friend, your inference to us as idiots seems to indicate that you are the only intelligent one around. The biggest mistake one can make is to infer others less superior or intelligent then you. Your pride will truly be your fall. Be wise in your walk for you never know where the landmines are.
Hantu,
This intense anger sustains you against Anwar in which it seems the PBB govt was led by your father (that's how desperate you always act. Tinpot jealousy) has rendered you an inane. Read what Tengku Razaleigh said about this issue in his latest blog post and read what Constitutional lawyers like Malik, Bari, Rafuq and Baram said. Pathetic indeed. Find morality in yourself before you blame others or try to preach to others.
dont let the brickbats put you down hantu laut
say it out say it proud. PR people are a bunch of angry baying mob who can't accept the fucked up Perak real good
as for me?
thanks PKR for picking idiots as their candidate in the first place. ha ha ha. pick idiots and you get idiots.. thats the rule of law
as for anwar
i am not a fan but not a hater either. but his " i have the number" shit make me want to puke like Linda Blair in The Exorcist
now lets see what number you have Anwar?
1-800-lying-piece-of-shit sounds like it... hahaha..
eat ya heart out anwar. next time dont be TOO SMUG. let this be a lesson in not counting your chickens before the egg hatches
btw
now UMNO have 2 MP aligned with them who are SEX BRIBERS. good! that shows you how righteous BN is. they gave chance to bribers... what a democratic party who are judgemental
unlike PAS!
AHAHAHA
LOL LOL
KAU NI MEMANG SIAL BESAR TAU TAK ? DARI DULU LAGI TAK BERUBAH UBAH PERANGAI.
YANG KAU SAKIT HATI SANGAT DENGAN ANWAR TU PASAI APA ?
DIA KOREK JUBUR KAU ? PANTAT BINI KAU?
HARAMJADAH PUNYA MELAYU KA NI. SAMA LAH DENGAN SULTAN MALUN.
There you see, HL, ppl really are emotional now. When emotions are high, intelligence go pffftt.
I read somewhere that even Karpal Singh said it is a waste of time and effort to against the royal decision.
Aiyah, why the need to rally and all? Let it go, regroup, strengthen your pact and fight in the next GE.
from
a peace loving citizen
yes !!! hantu laut, I strongly agree with u. PKR start the game of stealing ADUN & teach how to MELOMPAT. How stupid...kena tembak balik wa cakap lu...wa ka ka.Tak payah sembang la bab law..kalau kena kat batang hidung semua tak betul, semua konspirasi. May be new MB better than now.. BONEKA.. wa cakap lu.... Ganti lain lagi baik. Setakat pandai beli CAMRY dan beri pajakan tanah 999 tahun(BIGGEST MISTAKE)..Habis la TANAH kat perak tu.. Tak nampak masa depan and gelap MASA DEPAN..wa ka ka....To anwar supporter sorry to say...WA MAKIN BENCI SAMA DIA, CAKAP TARAK SERUPA BIKIN PUNYA. lu fikir la sendiri, mentaliti pembangkang tak habis2 nak balas dendam. gOOD hantu laut, you are better tahn anwar supporter. Congrat. WA KA KA
I dont think you were thinking clearly nor assessing the situation properly when you were writing this post. By your biased opinions towards PR and Anwar, it clearly seems that you are happy the way BN governance operates. Would you consider a country that abducts, bribes and closets the truth a righteous way to rule a Country, State and Citizens? If i am wrong prove me so. If you look at the context of the Sultan, of course he didnt have any choice. But did you even for once think that he was made to be put in that situation? You have no idea do you?
Please analyze the situation not through the mass media but through the voices of the citizens of Malaysia. The people are angry not at the Sultan, nor the froggers of assemblymen but the way BN had connived their way into power.
I believe you're a person with an education, even maybe rational.. so next time before you post up something of your blatant emotions, think real hard from all aspects of Malaysia and for what it stands for.
biasa la PKR, CAKAP BERBELIT-BELIT. Mulanya setuju ikut cakap sultan.WHAT EVER DECISIN BY SULTAN akan dipatuhi. Then nak masuk mahkamah pulak...tak ikut demokrasi kononnya...tui..tui.Tak ikut kehendak rakyat konon. Hampeh..Sebabya YANG SEBENAR kereta CAMRY tu tak sempat lagi habis 1000km JALAN. HEHEHEHEHEHEHE.....I SUPPORT U HANTU LAUT
ppl who say that anwar who start the ball rolling are right..but ponder this, did he do it in an underhanded way? are there any disappearance of mp, or any offering of money??NO. he did not bribe them to come over. all they did was to ASK them. if those BN mps want to jump ship, is their own choice. however, the same can't be said of Babi Najis and Ameno...
ps: the first anon is probably some BN supporter..maybe najis himself, cos he talk through his saiful-jubured ass.
Yes Hantulaut. I have to agree with you. All these comment against the Sultan is definately Bodoh.
Padan muka Anwar Ibrahim. Aku menyesal sokong PRK masa PRU12 dulu. Konon nak buat 916, tapi pasal kau bodoh, habuk pun tarak. Penyokong2 bodoh kau sampai sekarang masih bodoh terus nak sokong kau. Ekonomi tengah sakit ni kau kecoh nak jadi PM nak berpolitik. Sekarang kau dah kena check-mate, dah nak salahkan Sultan pulak. Woi bodoh, HRH is an exjudge la. Kau ingat dia bodoh macam kau ke buat decision????
AntiPRKygBodoh
to anon (February 5, 2009 10:54 PM)
wtf are u talking abt? have you really thought it out carefully?
ppl don't give a flying fuck who is the mp.most of them are new faces that we barely know.most of us voted for the party (DAP,PAS, PKR), not the mp. so when those ass holes jump ship, it did not mean that their the rakyat in their constitutions support their jumping ship.
and ytf u wan to talk abt the toyota camry for??stupid imbecile. probably one of those bn guys who demoed the anal sex scene in permatang pauh by election last year. if u like anal sex, don't just demo. go do it with saiful and auntie pet.
I sokong PKR in the last PRU. Then Nizar jadi MB with DAP and PKR. Next thing, tanah melayu that was given to the Chinese by the British for Kampung Baru Settlement suddenly jadi hak Cina for 999 years!!! Apa ke haram jadah decision macam tu. Adil ke? Definately this PKR government is not fair to the Malay. Though i voted for PKR in PRU12, now im fully in support of BN. Why do think every voters is against those 4 MPs action? I sokong 100%. Tido ka?
In most countries around the world, dissolving the legislative assembly is the prerogrative of the head of government. This is parliamentary democracy. Recall the Japanese snap elections in 2005 which greatly increased the ruling party's majority. Or Italy's elections last year after the PM lost a vote of confidence in Parliament.
This is the rationale: if the Mentri Besar no longer commands the support of the majority of members in the State Assembly, he has the right to call for new elections to see if the people of Perak agrees with the Assembly. A change of government is a big deal and should not be done by a few members of the Assembly switching sides, rather it should be decided by the electorate.
However, the Sultan is well within his right to refuse to dissolve the State Assembly. Therefore I believe PR should just accept the Sultan's decision as they would win the next election by a landslide anyway.
The Sultan Is Wrong, Motherfucker. Now how is that compared to the "The Sultan Is Right, Idiots" you used. Not nice right. Then, please be nice to others and you will get good manners in return. Just remember we will get you BN mothers in another 4 years.
Way to go Hantu! If anwar takes over the federal and state government through defections it's ok to these guys. Now they are saying anwar did not bribe and entice the BN defector with promises of money and positions, bullcrap! He was responsible for the collapse of the sabah government!
The collapse of the perak government is due to anwar, whatever he touches he spoils, be a gentleman, show your worth and work hard for the next elections.
You guys are a bunch of sour grapes! All the way with you Hantu!
I thought the 3 ex-PR adun have each given a written undertaking to the Sultan that they supported the PR Perak Government? How can the Sultan now accept that the same 3 adun can now declared they supported BN? Otherwise what the Sultan want that written undertaking for? Why made PR lives difficult in the 1st place? Didn't all the PR adun were made to sign the undertaking twice (1st they all signed on 1 sheet but were not accepted & each were made to sign individually on seperate sheet) & the formation of the Perak Government delayed?
hantu,
amidst the din, there's a sane voice. please go read razaleigh's latest piece. then, you will say that the people is not as idiotic, will you not?
if the royalty is not there to uphold the constitution, this nation will gradually descend into abyss, no different from Zimbabwee of today.
Hantu, would you agree?
I believe you are thinking from your heart and not from your head.
Here is what one blogger said:
http://malaysianunplug.blogspot.com/2009/02/perak-sultan-azlan-shah-being-former.html
The burning issue being raised by Malaysians on the Perak Sultan Raja Azlan Shah's decision is this: The right of the Sultan to remove the MB is not being questioned. It is whether the Sultan was constitutionally right, under our system of constitutional monarchy, to deny the request of the Leader of the State Assembly made to the monarch for a dissolution of the Assembly, given the prevailing circumstances. And whether the Sultan's option he had chosen to address the political crisis would be less divisive and is in the best interest of the people of Perak who, themselves, had voiced their rights less than a year ago in a general election.
For the CONSTITUTIONAL monarch, it is not just the issue of the due process that must be respected, the consequences of that decision on his subjects should be factored it... after all, he is deciding not as a judge, but as a constitutional monarch.
And what makes the matter worse in which the monarch failed to take cognizance is the dubious and suspicious circumstances of the defection of the three, namely the two charged for bribery and the other going in and out of UMNO in 10 days.
From talks in the internet and in mamak stall,it would apear that all the goodwill and the tremendous regard for the Royal Household of Perak since that reached a very high point with the public display by the crown prince's views etc have lost be several notches as a result of this crisis.
Many are saying: cakap tak serupa bikin. And some familiar with the Perak monarch's stand in the past, were not totally surprised.
This is a case of not whether the monarch has done the thing right, but whether he had done the right thing... and that's the crucial difference.
I am not going to agree nor disagree with you on whether the Sultan is right.
The one thing that me as registered voter of Ipoh and Perakians feel is the rakyat is betrayed.
If I am there, I will make sure Hee Yit Foong and her family will be treated as a social outcast to the extent that we hurl dog poo at her and her family.
Say what you like, she is a slut for all I care. Only UMNO politicians want an ugly duckling.
My dog, she is the uglist creature I have seen, fat and short like my dog and bull frog.
seems like the royal puppets have spoken for their money masters, not for their subjects.
Antares,
No skin off my nose.You can disagree, it's your privilege.
Yes, I prefer mine in the head, not the heart and certainly not the anus, which some people seems to have.
Rashid,
Your English is too complicated for me to understand.I have to go back to school.
Sea Ghost,
Constitutionally, the prerogative to dissolve the State Assembly is in the hands of the Ruler of the State.
However, His Highness has to act in accordance with the advice of the Menteri Besar, who is head of the State Assembly, unless His Highness has reasons not to do so. As His Highness had said that the exercsie of discretion had to be based on judicial principles and cannot be unfettered.
High Highness' refusal to give consent for dissolution of the State Assembly is within His discretion. However, it was the call of His Highness, but in my respectful opinion, His Highness did not answer the Royal call of duty by refusing to give consent for dissolution of the State Assembly for Perak voters to exercise their rights to choose the new State Assembly. By swearing in the new MB, His Highness had not resolved the political crisis in Perak as PR and BN both have 28 seats, with 3 so-called "independants".
The right and royal duty was to give consent for dissolution of the State Assembly and return to the people of Perak for a fresh mandate.
BN do not relish by-elections as money cannot buy by-elections or fresh elections now. In the worst case scenario, the people of Perak will have to wait for only 4 years to bury BN once and for all. Malaysians had waited for nearly 40years since 1969 before the political tsunami on 8 March 2008, the perfect storm.
All is not lost as we shall teach the traitors and unsavoury characters who are masquerading as people's represenatative a lession they will not forget in the next GE. I do not think such characters dare stand for elections in future and suffer ignominous defeat at the hands of their voters.
Cheng Poh Heng
After I read, and re-read the Constitution, unfortunately I have to agree with you that the Sultan acted within the Constitution.
How BN achieved it is immoral and unethical, but that's a separate issue.
Do you realise that also means Anwar Ibrahim's frogs, if he manages to successfully get the numbers, is also Constitutional ?
its funny to see all DSAI/PKR think... they think all of these politician in PKR play a clean politics... be real la brader... politics is politics... nothing clean... you think you know all.. stupid voters...
Aiyaa! Don't be mad if others call you idiot if you acted like one. Karpal Singh was wise enough to acknowledge that the presigned undated resignation letters are not legally binding based on the precedence heard in the federal court a few years ago.Didn't they realized that Karpal is the President of the DAP or is there factions in the DAP, one aligned to the Lims and the other to other leaders?Why Ngeh's perspective differs from Karpal's?Ku Li's article in his blog is also not exactly correct. His reference to Terengganu is totally irrelevant. In appointing the MB, the Sultan of Terengganu has ignored the support of majority of ADUNs towards Idris and chosen Ahmad Said instead. HRH was executing his powers based on the letters of the state constitution eventhough HRH should have gone with Idris. Ku Li should have point out to the events occurred in Perlis instead.The Raja of Perlis appointed Dr Isa based on the support of ADUNs instead of Shahidan who lost the majority support of ADUNs. BTW please remember that it was Ku Li who had orchestrated the downfall of the PAS government in kelantan decades ago.People in power will do what ever possible to keep the power and people yearning for power will do what ever they possibly do to be in power.Anwar did not names those BN MPs he claimed had crossover because there were actually none: he was just boasting about it. The psychological game he was playing backfired,even Kadir Jasin his strong supporter questioned his claims.Maybe its just that these ADUNs lost their confidence in the leaders and ways of PR that they decided to crossover; ever think of that!rumors are rife that few more from PR are crossing over to bn in these few days not just in Perak but also a handful MPs too.PR better watchout for these people...looks like another slap in the face in the pipeline for ANwar Ibrahim.
The woman responsible in this Perak fiasco
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/84/biz_07malaysia_Seri-Eleena-Raja-Azlan-Shah_MDRG.html
http://www.gamuda.com.my/GAMUDA03/corporate_bod_05.htm
http://www.naqshbandi.org/events/SEAsia2004/Malaysia2004/Feb29/index.HTM
Over to you Sultan Azlan. I hope bloggers will pick this up and investigate into news that NTR use her to broker the collapse of PRK
At least someone managed to catch the details.
"How can a majority be formed if the 4 frogs are not legally or rather DO NOT represent their constituents any longer?"
I'm surprised despite all this legal talk no one picked this point to argure. In a British parliamentary system, the MAJORITY forms the government. So technically BN cannot form the government becase its 28 v 28 with 3 non-aligned. There's no majority. Having 3 independents confirming they will support whoever BN puts forth is by itself a chicken and egg problem. How can you put forth a name without commanding a majority? But what is a majority when its 28-28 with 3 independents? Ah then it becomes whoever gets the 3 has the majority.
So legally, BN couldn't have put forth a name because BN is not the MAJORITY power. On the other hand, technically, or rather from a practical perspective, because it was 28-28 and BN proved they have the 3 independents, there's no reason the Sultan would reject the request.
But aha! Legally, PR should have pre-empt the decision once they knew of 3 independents by going to court. To file an injunction blocking any appointment of a new MB by arguing technically there's no majority party. Then declare the Perak government under the circumstances is no longer majority and until the courts decide will consider itself a care taker government.
At least PR covers both the legal side and the real side. They bought insurance by going to court. Then they declare themselves care taker to play up support for their cause.
In summary, you want to bring American politics into Malaysia you better know how to play the game. This should be a lesson for PKR not PR.
Wow I just realised a lot of errors in my comment.
3rd paragraph last line should read "the Sultan would accept the request" in refernce to MB's request for dissolution.
Apologies
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