HANTU LAUTWhen Abraham's two sons went on their separate ways, he wouldn't have known, that his sons and descendants would, one day, brought to this world, three of the greatest religions and also brought the greatest human conflicts and tragedies. Jews,Christians and Muslims have been at loggerheads for over a millennium. Tragic consequences of religious intolerance resulting in religiously motivated violence, mass murder and genocide.
The three faiths share a common heritage.All three religions worship one god.Judaism and Islam originated amongst the Jews and Arabs, while Christianity came from Judaism.The youngest, which most Muslims wouldn't agree is Islam. Mohammad, the Messenger of God, the last prophet according to Islam, founded the religion around the year 610 A.D when he received his first revelation.The Koran accepted all previous prophets before Muhammad as the prophets of Islam and accepted Jews and Christians as part of the Ahl al-Kitab (People of the Book).
Islam demands that Muslims treat Jews, Christians and non-Muslims as dhimmis, protected citizens who has certain rights.In some places and times, Muslims treated non-Muslims with great tolerance;in other places and times, non-Muslims were treated as enemies and persecuted. Likewise, Christians and Jews had their fair shares of unjust treatment of Muslims.
In the Hebrew Bible (old Testament).....violence is easily the most often mentioned subject.There are about 100 passages in it where God expressly commands others to kill people.Four of this events in the Jewish Scriptures would probably qualify as genocide under most current definition of the term.
They were;
1.The worldwide flood of Noah as mentioned in Genesis ,Chapter 6 to 8.It almost completely wipe out the human race with the exception of Noah,his wife and sons and their wives.This is God's violent rage.
2.The 'Passover' described in Exodus, Chapter 11 and 12.All the first born of all Egypt were to be slaughtered.
3.The conquest of Canaan in which God ordered the Hebrews to completely exterminate the Canaanite people....from the elderly to the new born and fetuses.Described in the Book of Joshua.
4.The near extermination of the entire tribe of Benjamin by the remaining 11 tribes, triggered by the serial rape and murder of a priest's concubine by a few Benjaminite.Described in the Book of Judges, Chapter 20.
Why have three religions sharing the same roots drifted so far apart and caught in perennial conflicts, atrocities and wars.Were they due to religion or were they the results of political and ethnic conflicts, the selfishness and greed of powerful men and nations, the desire for greater hegemony and enslavement of others and to exert total control of the weak and poor nations ?
The Islamic Golden Age spanned from the middle of the 8th century to the middle of the 13th century.Scientific and intellectual achievements blossomed during that time.Scholars and engineers from the Islamic world contributed enormously to the arts, literature, philosophy, sciences and technology.Religious freedom created cross cultural network attracting Muslims, Christians and Jewish intellectuals.During the Umayyad Caliphate rule of Southern Spain, the city of Cordoba was one of the largest cities in the world, a great cultural, political and economic centre and had the highest standard of living and quality of live in the whole of Europe.It has many splendid buildings and artistic architecture.The Mezquita, a mosque built during the Umayyad period is now a World Heritage Site.This civilisation precipitated the birth of the European Renaissance.
The Jews has a long history of persecution, from the days of the Pharaohs to the end of the 2nd World War. History has shown that it wasn't the Muslims that inflicted systematic persecution of Jews.The Christians had much longer history of systematic and atrocious persecution of the Jewish people.Many genocides and ethnic cleansing were inflicted on the Jews by Christians, over the past few centuries in Europe.
Below are some of the list of Jewish persecution for almost two millennium.
70.AD: The massacre of 1,100,000 Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans to quell Jewish rebellion.
132-135: The Bar Kocha rebellion.Death of 500,000 Jews, thousand taken into slavery.
315: 'Constantine the Great' established 'Christianity' as a state religion throughout the Roman Empire and issued many anti-Jewish law.
613: Persecution of Jews in Spain.All Jews who refused to be baptized were kicked out of Spain.Those who stayed were taken as slaves.All Jewish children 7 years and over were taken and given Christian education.
1181: French King Philip banished the Jews from his domain .All immovable assets such as land and houses reverted to the king.
1189:Richard the 'Lionhearted' unexpectedly persecuted the Jews.Most Jewish houses in London were burned and many Jews killed.All possessions of the Jews were claimed by the Crown.Richard's successor alone, relieved the Jews of more than 8 million marks.
1290: Edward I banished the Jews from England.16,000 Jews left the country.
1298: Persecution of Jews in Franconia,Bavaria and Austria.Nobleman Kalbfleish alleged he had received a divine order to destroy all Jews .More than 100,000 Jews were mercilessly killed.
1306: King Philip the Fair banished Jews from France, 100,000 Jews left the country.
1321: Jews were accused of having incited outlaws to poison wells and fountains in France.5000 Jews were burned at the stake.
1497:Jews banished from Spain.300,000 Jews left Spain penniless.Many migrated to Muslim country, Turkey,where they found tolerance and a welcome.
1846-78: All former restrictions against Jews in the Vatican were re-inforced by Pope Pius IX.
1903: Renewed restrictions and pogroms of Jews in Russia.
1933: Commencement of persecution of Jews by Hitler's Germany.Systematic destruction of 6 million Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe.
I will not list the Muslims persecution of Jews as they were pale compared to that of the Christians.In term of numbers, Christians have killed more Jews than the Muslims.
Why are the Jews persecuted ? Have they asked themselves where they have gone wrong to deserve such treatment? Are they so bad that others wanted to hurt them? Even Shakespeare didn't have kind words for the Jews. In 'Merchant of Venice' , a story about the fundamentals of morality, Shylock, a Jewish moneylender was portrayed as an evil man, selfish, ruthless and heartless . In his play 'Macbeth' , one of the many ingredients used by the three witches for the' witches brew' was 'the liver of a blaspheming Jew'.There was great deal of prejudice towards Jews in Shakespeare's time because Jews do not believe in Christ.
In the Umayyad kingdom of Al-Andalusa, the Caliph of Cordoba, Abd-ar-Rahman instructed his successor son, Hisham, and his government officials on the importance of tolerance towards all of his subject, Jews, Christians and Muslims alike.
"Remember, my son, these are God's kingdoms, God who gives and take away at leisure...Be just to all men, equally to the poor and the rich, for injustice is the road to ruin;at the same time be gentle and merciful with those who are dependant on you, for they are all creatures of God.Trust the government of the provinces to wise, experienced men and punish without pity those ministers who oppress the people" Abd-ar-Rahman, Caliph of Cordoba
The fair and just rule in Al-Andalusa came to an end with the Reconquista (reconquest) by the Christians that led to the Spanish Inquisition culminating in 1492.Jews and Muslims were expelled from the country, forcefully converted to Christianity, become slaves or be killed.The persecution of Jews and Muslims lasted almost 500 years before Spain gradually adopted tolerance and openness to other religions.
Today, Jews and Christians have joined forces against Islam. The war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the bombing of Lebanon are glaring example of Judeo-Christian alliance.This is an alliance of the power of money. An alliance for global dominance.A war of attrition against weak Islamic nations under the pretext of fighting terrorism.
In 1982 at Sabra and Shatila Palestinian refugees camp in Lebanon the Jews used Phalangists Christian Militia to massacre and killed 3500 innocent Palestinian children, women and men that took refuge in the country. In the West Bank and other Occupied Territories, Palestinians homes were demolished or bombed, killing innocent civilians.The Occupied Territories remained occupied because America and the West support and protect Israel for the occupation and atrocities against the unarmed and defenceless Palestinians.
Terrorism came into existence in the Middle East due to the pro-Israel policy of the United States and Western European nations, which was further aggravated by the uncompromising stand taken by Israel toward the Palestinian issue. Different groups of Islamist decided to take the law into their own hands and form terror groups, as they couldn't get justice from powerful nations that control the politics and faith of other poor and weaker nations. Undeniably, America was the reason for the birth of terrorism. The powerful Jewish lobby and the immense wealth they control have greatly influenced America's policy in the Middle East. The Jewish Diasporas probably control greater wealth then those of all the OIC countries put together. The continuing injustice and atrocities against the Palestinians launched the birth of global terrorism, which has strong following in many Muslim nations.
The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were the biggest mistake made by the American administration. These unjustifiable wars had riled up the Islamists to seek further revenge.
Has Bush, the moron in the White House, got legs to stand on to defend himself on the number of people he had killed in the wars on terror.His parochial and myopic views of the outside world, other religion and culture had made him an irrationally dangerous man.His foreign policies are kindergarten stuff, in dire need of civilised behaviour.He kept saying he has won the war on terror.Has he ? Then why are innocent Iraqi civilians dying in the streets of Baghdad every day.Why built a huge fortress in the centre of Baghdad for his diplomatic mission if he truly believes he has won the war and Iraq is safe. He protects his own citizens and accorded them all the luxuries of life in a war zone sheltered inside an armoured fortress while outside Iraqis get killed by terrorists or American bombs and guns. Indubitably, George Bush is a god-fearing Christian. He is a man of the Bible and truly believes in 'an eye for an eye'.
Isn't his killing machines more efficient than those of the terrorists ? How many more people he would like to kill, to avenge those killed at the World Trade Centre in New York before he stops.It was estimated, at least, 500,000 Iraqis have been killed since the Gulf War started. He has made a mockery of the meaning of the word 'freedom'.Guantanamo Bay, where prisoners are detained without trial and stripped of their civil liberties broke all the rules of the Law of Protection of Human Rights.He cheated his American people and failed his nation as the epitome of freedom.
Should Bush, Blair and Howard be called Christian terrorists? Don't you think they deserve the name and more, as war criminals ?
The violence done by Muslims all over the world had nothing to do with Islam. They are the products of imams, mullahs and other so-called Muslims experts who are utterly confused and conveniently misinterpreted the religion to serve their own purpose.
21 comments:
The violence done by Muslims all over the world had nothing to do with Islam. They are the products of imams, mullahs and other so-called Muslims experts who are utterly confused and conveniently misinterpreted the religion to serve their own purpose.
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Don't try to sweep the bad fruits of Islam under the carpet of misguided , confused and misterpretation of Islam.
This misguided Islam is the type of Islam that is spreading fast amongst muslims.
Just like the Islamic preachers in the London Mosque exorting that it is their duty to kill the infidels.
What more is there to say?. The perception that Islam = intolerance has its merit from its prevalent fruit.
There are no bad fruits of Islam, there are only bad Muslims.Just like the Islamic preachers in the London mosque, as stated by you.
Islam do not ask its follower to go out and kill people,it's the bad and misguided Muslims who did.
Do you think George Bush has more right to kill.His bombs had killed more innocent people than all the terrorist bombs put together.Don't you think they are all and the same.
It would be nice if you could kindly give yourself a name ,any name,so we could have a better discourse.Thanks
I think you present a very one sided account of the Jewish and Christian faiths or you do not even know the Quran well. Is Islam a religion of peace like you say?? well it is very contradictory in nature so depending on which side you want to believe. Look at the scriptures below:
Sura 47:4 says:
Fa'idhā Laqītumu Al-Ladhīna Kafarū Fađarba Ar-Riqābi Ĥattaá 'Idhā 'Athkhantumūhum Fashuddū Al-Wathāqa Fa'immā Mannāan Ba`du Wa 'Immā Fidā'an Ĥattaá Tađa`a Al-Ĥarbu 'Awzārahā Dhālika Wa Law Yashā'u Allāhu Lāntaşara Minhum Wa Lakin Liyabluwa Ba`đakum Biba`đin Wa Al-Ladhīna Qutilū Fī Sabīli Allāhi Falan Yuđilla 'A`mālahum
which means
Therefore, WHEN YOU MEET THE UNBELIEVERS, SMITE AT THEIR NECKS; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
If you have claimed that Islam promotes the tolerance of the Jewish and Christian faith, you may have missed the following suras:
Sura 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war);
- Surah's 8:39; 9:5; 9:29: 47:4 in the Muslim Qur'an are 'divine' commandments to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death.
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Sura 5:51).
Islam in its infancy have faught many wars, many of them brutal. the early history of Is lam sees the raiding of innocent caravans for booty and the division of the loot to finance wars. Nearly all the Jewish tribes who did not subject to Islam were brutally murdered.
You have claimed that the Islamic empire in Europe, particularly in Spain had been golden ages. Au contrare, War is never peaceful nor is any less brutal than any other wars in history.
SPAIN UNDER THE MOORS
Neither was Spain under the Muslim Moors the jewel of Islamic tolerance that it is often purported to be. In 920 A.D. all the inhabitants of Muez were put to the sword. Cordova, Zarajoza and Merida were burned to the ground, with all adult males executed and all women and children enslaved. In AD 1066 all the Jews of Grenada were slaughtered. In AD 1126, all the Christians of Grenada were deported to Morocco.
CARNAGE IN CONSTANTINOPLE
Under Mehmet II the Turks conquered the great Byzantine capital, Constantinople. On 29 May, 1453 A.D., waves of Turkish soldiers swept into Constantinople, the greatest city in the world at that time, and put it to the sword. Priceless libraries and irreplaceable works of art were burned, the population slaughtered, even in the Hagia Sophia, the greatest Christian church in the world at that time.
For centuries the Turks demanded an annual “blood levy” of Christian boys. Parents were forced to hand over one out of every five Christian boys for service in the Sultan’s army as janissaries.
In 1860 over 12,000 Christians were slaughtered in Lebanon. In 1876 14,700 Bulgarians were murdered by the Turks. 200,000 Armenian Christians were slaughtered by the Turks in Bayazid in 1877. And in 1915 the Turks massacred over 1.5 million Armenian Christians. As recently as September 1922 the Turkish army destroyed the ancient city of Smyrna with its 300,000 Christian population.
What is the cause of so much confusion. Are the so called London Mullah extremists??
The truth is that the Quran itself consisits of contradictory messages. The scriptures in Mecca are often peaceful while later Medina verses are violent after the Prophets rejection. The "extremists" are not wrong afterall. They just read a different part of the scriiptres.
Please do not get confused between the actions of man and God.
you seem to get confused between man and God. Never in the Bible are Christians urged to get revenge or start a war or to brutally kill unbelievers. On contrary look at the scriptures below:
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him two.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
Mat 5:44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;
Mat 5:45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.
What George Bush does is not in the name of religion. Did JEsus ask George Bush to bomb in Afganistan or in Iraq?? It is a political decision. Never in the Bible are the Christians ask to kill infidels.
You mentioned that God Kill?? Is it blesphemy even in your Own religion?? I believe the story in Genesis is also in the Quran. Isn't the righteous Noah a prophet in Islam??
You missed the gist of my story.My story is about the persecution of the Jewish people.Many people took for granted, without bothering to look back at history, to portray that only Islam had persecuted the Jews from time immemorial to the present.This is a fallacy that many non-Muslims would like to believe.The Christian had a much longer history of such atrocities.I wouldn't deny that Islam had it fair share of discrimination and persecution of the Jews.The discrimination of Jews in the West only stopped after World War II.Even now there are pockets of anti-semitism in the United States and elsewhere.
One must understand that the Koran came much later than the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.Naturally, you wouldn't find Islam and Mohammad mentioned in these books.
If you scrutinise Sura.47 with greater indepth, you would find it was related to the early days of Islam when it was under attack by the Quresh tribe from Mecca.The Koran just like the Old Testament are not short of recitation of violence.
Below are from Deuteronomy of the Old Testament.
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; [namely], the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Do you find the above any different from the Koran or you think they are acceptable because you think so.I can quote hundreds if not thousands of similar recitation in the Bible.
Take Genesis 22:When God ordered Abraham to kill his son, Issac as a sacrifice to him.Although, he eventually didn't kill his son, wouldn't you agree, in the present,it would be a criminal act.
Do you think the above are more acceptable than what you have quoted from the Koran.
I have never in my article mentioned that Islam is more tolerant than Judism and Christianity and similarly to say Christians and Jews are tolerant is pure sophistry. If they were, than there wouldn't be any wars.Same goes with the Muslims.
My portrayal of the Caliph of Cordoba is to show that there are good and bad people in any religion.It was not religion that makes man bad, it was man who makes religion bad.
When George Bush kills it was for political reason, so it was right.When the Muslims retaliated, they are terrorists.What kind of reasoning is this?
In the first place what business had George Bush and his lackey, Tony Blair had invading Iraq killing innocent Iraqis, when it was clear that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism and WMD.Scores of Iraqis get killed in the streets of Baghdad almost every day.
The messages may be from God, but all the holy scriptures were written by men and I stand by what I say, that not only the Koran espouses violence, the Hebrew Bible had more recitation of violence than the Koran.
Sorry, to say, I have to correct a few inaccuracies here.
Hantu Laut, you seem to be using the term 'Christian terrorist", when refering to George Bush, Tony Blair, and Howard. You seem to equate the West with Christians, War with Terror, or unjustified war.
The West is not Christian. There is only one country in the Western world run on a theocracy, which is the Vatican, and the religion is Roman Catholism, hardly a "christian" sect, more of a Babylonian mystery religion if you examine its roots.
Most of the Western world are atheist & not christian if you would ask my honest opinion. The fastest growing religion in Britain is Islam or Wicca. (Witchcraft). You can judge the sucess of the Harry Potter series to see that the west is no longer christian, although they may claim so in their profession. I am not sure what religion Tony Blair or George Bush would claim to..certainly the aim for launching the 2 gulf wars has nothing to do with Christianity.
The first Gulf war was lauched to get rid of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait at the invitation of the Arab Gulf states. The second Gulf war was launched because of Oil, according to Alan Greenspan...just revealed a few days ago. What has violence, the two Gulf wars or killing innocent civilians got to do with Christianity??
I would say the madness in the middle east has more to do with tribe, race than religion. The war between Iran and Iraq has killed millions has more to do with the two Islamic sects of Shia and Sunni than with Christianity. The current carnage in Iraq is also a quarrel between Sunni and Shia sect, which unfortunately caught the Ameriacns in the middle of a very vicious war.
Don't really know what all these has to do with Christianity as such.
You said Bush cause a "carnage". I am not sure which President Bush that u are talking about. The 1st Gulf war Bush never went into Baghdad and the casualties were mostly Iraqi soldiers feeing the war and no civilian casualties were recorded. The second Gulf war from what I know had minimal casualty. The war currently in Iraq is between Sunni and Shia tribal leaders fighting for power to rule amongst themselves or to get the American to leave. I would predict that should Americans leave, there will be total carnage, and an all out war to seize power within the various tribal leaders. Hardly a war between Christain and Islamic issues.
"""you find the above any different from the Koran or you think they are acceptable because you think so.I can quote hundreds if not thousands of similar recitation in the Bible.""-Quote
Hi, just to correct a few inaccuracies here.
You said that there are thousands of verses in the Bible about killing and carnage, from what i could count there are exactly 4 portions of scriptures quoted by you in the articles, not one of which is in the New Testament never mind it being a teaching of the Lord Jesus.
Lets begin with the issue of Abraham and Issac. You said it man, Issac was never sacrificed-hence all the problems that you have mentioned about regarding the hostility between Jews and Muslims. The last I looked, there are still tens of millions of Jews still around hence evidence still that Issac was not sacrificed. I think you jest, surely the order to sacrifice one person is hardly carnage! Had God intended the sacrifice, he would not have made a promise to Abraham.
The incidence of Deutronomy, God was very specific as to who were to be driven from the land, the amorites, periivtes....and other... ites. I don't see infidels or Ismaelites there in the list. These nations were the most evil nations and God perservered with them for 400 years, even the jews were settled in Egypt until thir iniquity was full before God pronounced jugdgement on them. Would you call a man sentenced to death for murder or drug traffiking, a carnage?? The specific nations quoted were the most morally corrupt, indulging in child sacrifice to fertility deities and are the most brutal in conduct.
The difference between the instances quoted and the verses in the Quran exorting "followers" to kill Jews Christians and infidels is that I feel infinitely more secure that God is the judge in these circumstance rather than man.
In the current situation of arbitary justice or relativism, I put my trust in God rather than man.
Please quote me verses of carnage in the New testament if you find them
How can you say Islam is a peaceful religion when the Quran contains specific exhortations to kill infidels and those that do not submit?? Islam has always been spread through conquests even in the early history, the vanquished are killed, women are raped as prize of war.Specific instructions are given on booty divisions and the conquered are treated as second class citizens and asked to pay taxes.
Muslims are very selective as to what they want to follow. If America is truely the Great Satan, I do not find long lines waiting to emigrate to Taliban Afganistan. Instead they head to America and England, have sex with the infidel women and drink alcohol.
If they find America and the West so offensive, there is the conservative Saudi Arabia to emigrate to.
I think we have drifted away from the central issue,we have gone off-track.The main issue is who had persecuted the Jews more, Christians or Muslims and the recitation of violence in the Old testament and the Koran.
The article was in response to the many anti-Islam websites bashing Islam as a violent religion and scathing attack on Mohammad by ignorant and bigoted morons who had little knowledge of history of their own religion.
Human beings have been at war from the day God created them.The Crusade, started by Christian Europe and sanctioned by the Pope at that time was the only religious war.All other wars fought in the past irrespective of between Muslims and Christians,between Christians and Christians and Muslims and Muslims were expansionist wars, the desire to enlarge the kingdom's territory and sphere of influence.
The Islamic fighters in the present Middle East are not fighting for their religion, it was the West that branded them so by giving them all sort of names.It all started when the West created Israel out of a land called Palestine. Israel was created out of the Balfour Declaration, in which Lord Balfour even, ridiculously, suggested Uganda or Argentina as alternatives.The Zionists rejected the other two and wanted Palestine and they got it.
If the American and the European felt great sympathy for the Jews after what Hitler did to them, why didn't they carve a bit of Europe or America and give it to the Jewish people.There were only about 2 million Jews Diosporas that wanted their own land. America is a huge country and they can afford it.
Who do you blame for the present crisis? The British, the Jews or the Arabs?
The war in Iraq, the slaughter between the Shias and Sunnis,do you think it would have occurred if Bush, the moron in the White House didn't invade Iraq? Many American and British people do not agree with what he and Tony Blair did in Iraq.So, don't be mistaken with 'might is right'.The American invasion of Iraq is unjustifiable.
Bush has created another Vietnam in Iraq and Afghanistan.Believe me, they can never win these wars.
America has never won any war.They have only caused massive destruction and great loss of human lives.
I was a great supporter of America before and truly believe they are the epitome of freedom.
For the past few years,I have changed my mind, their hypocrisy and evil attention had become too obvious and untenable.
I am not sure what point HAntu Laut is trying to make here.
The title of this blog ask whether Judaism, Christianity and Islam could coexist together. The answer is no, not if there are death threats existing in the Quran to kill all Christians, Jews and infidels. London Mullahs are not extremists, they are just taught that in the Quran, not matter how much one would like to ignore this fact.
Violence is recorded in the Bible and Jewish scriptures of course (it is a book that records truth and history), but it does not exhort all believers in their faiths to go out and kill all unbelievers that disagree with their beliefs. It does not exhort adherents of their faith to kill Buddhists, Christians, Jews or any other that disagree with them. Nor does Judaism or Christianity advocate war as a means to spread their religious beliefs. Faith is something between an individual and his God, not something that is imposed on fellow men.
Yes, mediaeval Europe had not treated Jews well, but it still does not make it right nor does their religion condones it as a duty like Islam.
As to whether Balfour should have given Israel its statehood, well the truth is Israel was granted nationhood by the United Nations in 1948, not by Balfour. Get a life and move on from there. In 1969 in the six day war, 5 Arab nations declared war on Israel which Israel won with a further extension of its borders. At no time in the history of the world, (I am taking the example of WW2) for instance, when a war won by its victor and land seized, has land been returned!! Germany was split in 2 with Russia maintaining its eastern half. Neither was America given back to the Red Indians after Independence. Fair is fair. Even in the history of Islam,did the inhabitants of Mecca asked that their land be returned by the prophet of Islam. Neither did the Byzantines ask for Land to be returned to the Byzantine empire after the conquest by the Othoman empire.
Is it morally acceptable for Osama to pick the World Trade Centre to kill so many innocents that have nothing to do with the war in the middle East or Afghanistan. The people who died in the tragedy probably never even elected Bush who went to war in Iraq into office. There are legitimate targets in a war. If Osama Blamed Bush for war crimes, then Bush should be the target, not the innocents in the world trade Centre. What has the innocent people who died in that tragedy done to deserve their fate??
I am not saying that American foreign policy is right. American foreign policy has nothing to do with Christianity nor Judaism. America is secular. In fact The American constitution does emphasize very strongly the division between state and religion.
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""The Islamic fighters in the present Middle East are not fighting for their religion, it was the West that branded them so by giving them all sort of names.""
i am afraid I strongly disagree with you. Osama clearly labels himself Islamic or fighting on what he calls his version of true Islam as opposed to the Whahabi Islam. The Islamist label is not one invented by the West as you claimed. Jihad is not a term invented by the West, and neither is martyrdom nor the promise of 72 black eyed virgins awaiting the jihadist. The PLO, the Hezbollah were the people who exploited the very terms to recruit suicide bombers in their propaganda machine. Have you seen the media churned out by the PLO and the Hezbollah? Where did all these promises come from?? It is all written clearly in the Quran for all to read.
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""The discrimination of Jews in the West only stopped after World War II""
where did you get this idea from?? As recently as last week, a mad President of Iran still threatens to annihilate the Jews and push them back to the seas. The PLO charter still calls for that to be done.
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""If the American and the European felt great sympathy for the Jews after what Hitler did to them, why didn't they carve a bit of Europe or America and give it to the Jewish people.There were only about 2 million Jews Diasporas that wanted their own land. America is a huge country and they can afford it""
There are currently more Jews in New York alone than in Israel. Why do you think they have such a strong voice in the Jewish lobby in America?? I do not see the Americans asking the Jews to be pushed out to the seas. Nobody forced the Jews to go to Israel or to create the state of Israel. They are there on their own accord after WW2. UN granted them statehood after the British asked the UN to sort the problem out. They were living side by side with the Arabs from 1948 onwards. The Jews never drove the Arabs out after Israel nationhood. There is presently 2 million Arabs with Israeli citizenship. Neither did the Israeli drive the Arabs out of Israel in the 6 day war. The refugee problem was created by the 5 Arab nations who invaded Israel in the 6 day war in 1969. When The invading Arab nations invaded During the 6 day war, The Arab nations asked the Arabs living in Israel at that time to move out of the way, while they try to anhilate Israel in a short time. Please do not try to revise history.
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"Who do you blame for the present crisis? The British, the Jews or the Arabs?"
I blame it on the Arabs who cannot live side by side with the Jews who have a UN given right to be there. BY the way, there is no such entity as Palestinian. Yasser Arafat is an Egyptian. Palestine is not only the strip of land they call Israel now. The territories included in the British Mandate called Palestine include Trans-Jordan, the Land called Jordan, The nation of Israel is a very small part of it. If Jordan has the right to exist, certainly the state of Israel is entitled to the same right.
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""Bush has created another Vietnam in Iraq and Afghanistan.Believe me, they can never win these wars.
America has never won any war.They have only caused massive destruction and great loss of human lives.""
Why do you equate a decision made by President George W. Bush" to go to war in Iraq with America?? I am sure there are millions of Americans in the USA who do not agree with his decision to go to war, particularly those in the Democratic party. there again there are many Americans who disagree with Bush. That is how things are done in a democracy. It is rule by the majority.
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""Human beings have been at war from the day God created them.The Crusade, started by Christian Europe and sanctioned by the Pope at that time was the only religious war.All other wars fought in the past irrespective of between Muslims and Christians,between Christians and Christians and Muslims and Muslims were expansionist wars, the desire to enlarge the kingdom's territory and sphere of influence.""
Adam was created in the Garden of Paradise according to the Bible. Violence did not start till the fall of Man and started with the line of Cain. Violence is certainly not created by God but by the fall of man.
I agree that all wars are motivated by expantionist plan of countries and politics and that includes the crusades. I disagree that the crusades were religious- I think you are getting mixed up with politics and religion again. Jesus Christ never ask the crusaders to go to war. politicians did, the pope did. The pope is a politician.
Quote:
The article was in response to the many anti-Islam websites bashing Islam as a violent religion and scathing attack on Mohammad by ignorant and bigoted morons who had little knowledge of history of their own religion""
They are right-Islam does condone violence against the Jews and Christians and infidels (However you define it) as seen in the various scriptures quoted. Trouble is Muslims call each other infidels- depending on whether one is Shia or Sunni or Wahabi-according to Osama Bin Ladin. They also call the Christians & Jews Infidels, despite as you say, the prophet calling them People of the book. I am afreid that these violent men are dragging the Jews and the Christians into their fight.
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The post asks "Are Judaism, Christianity and Islam imcompatible?"
Isn't the answer obvious?
Try opening a new synagogue or church in any majority Muslim or Muslim ruled state. It's a fool's errand at best--but such audacious acts are usually banned outright.
Let's look at Malaysia in particular, since this blogger is one, and Malaysia portrays itself as a 'moderate' Muslim state. Non Muslim Malaysians are not allowed to convert to Judaism. And Muslims in Malaysia? Resignations from Islam aren't accepted--a rule strongly reminiscent of the Triads or the Mafia. Just ask Lina Joy about that.
No Muslim state on earth officially allows its Muslims to leave Islam for Judaism or Christianity. Not one.
Israel's policies, Iraq, or Afghanistan have nothing to do with Dar al Islam's ban on new churches (to say nothing on the blanket Muslim ban of synagogues and temples). Islam's oppression of all things non Islamic is inexcusable as it is irrefutable.
You can shriek "Islam is peace" and "It's all Bush or Israel's fault" until the cows come home. We know better.
Actions speak louder than words.
Well said anti-jihadist.
Time to silence Islamist apologist who excuse all thier violence as a duty to Allah.
Islam has always spread through the sword even in its infancy and intolerance or anything or anyone who stand in thier way beware!!
America,
Get real.Don't argue for sake of argument.You said "Nor does Judaism and Christianity advocate war as a mean to spread their religious belief"
The Hebrew Bible are full of mentioned of atrocities and wars.Much more than the Koran.Not only it talks about violence and wars , it is also very pornographic, so much so that some Christian parents in Europe and Hong Kong refused to allow their children to read the Bible.
For instance, take the Book of Genesis Ch.19: Where Lot offered his two daughters to the men of Sodom who came to his house looking for sexual gratification and they refused the offer because they were poofters.In Genesis 19.30-38 the two daughters got him drunk and had sex with him in the cave and bore him children.So, the two religions an its Bible are not as squeaky clean as you wish and wanted them to be.
I never said what Osama did was right, and for that matter Saddam Hussein.I am totally against violence on civilians either by terrorists or regular military operations.Osama can labelled himself Islamic but what he did was unIslamic.Even Saddam is not considered Islamic, he had done many things against Islam.Again, out of ignorance the West portrayed him as an Islamic villain when he was not even a practising Muslim.He built statues of himself all over Iraq, which is against Islamic teachings.Islam forbids building of statues and self-glorification.Saddam like Slobodon Milosevic were just bad people.They are born bad.Their brains are slotted between that of human and animal.
Don't get it wrong, there are many Muslims who would be happy to see Osama dead, he is a menace to the whole world.He had recently declared war on Pakistan, an Islamic country.So, do you thing this madman is fighting for Islam.
I never said Balfour made Isreal,I said it was created out of the Balfour Declaration,the UN sanctioned the creation of Isreal was true, unless you are deaf,dumb and illiterate, which I would certainly excuse you, who do you think controlled the United Nation then, who were the 5 members of the Security Council at that time, do you see any Islamic country on the Security Council?
The creation of Israel was started by a strong Zionist movement led by Haim Weizmann, a Russian Jew and backed by Britain.The Western nations were so powerful at that time, they can virtually draw a circle any where on the world map and create a new country.
for anti-jihadists,
You are right and wrong.What happened in Malaysia and those other countries you mentioned were more politics than religion.Islam does not allow human to kill or punish apostate.The punishment shall be By God in the afterlife.I suggest your read the Grand Mufti of Egypt,Ali Gomaa's article on 'On Faith' websites to get a better understanding of apostasy in Islam.
You are misinformed, many Muslim nations allow the building of churches,synagogues and temples.Come to Malaysia and see for yourself how many temples and churches we have all over the country and how many new ones are being built.
It has been nice talking to you guys,I shall be closing this dialogue soon.Cheerio.
Look at the fruits;
Mad tyranical leader in Iran Ahmadnedijad who wants to blow up the world and bring in the 12th Imam-Islamic. Al Quada Osama Bin Ladin-Islamic. Hisbollah and Hamas-Islamic. Bali Bombers?-Islamic. Afganistan- Islamic. Need we say more.
For yr info, Lot is not Jewish. He is not Christian. He is the father of Ammorites and Moabites whose decendents are modern day Arabs, very ones whom God asked to be driven from the land.
The fruits speak for themselves!
They are all descendents of Abraham, which make them the same, Semitic.God did not drive him away from the land.God sent an angel to save him and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorroh.Christianity wasn't born yet at that time.
Which Bible are you reading ?
This Bible.
Jer 48:15 Moab is laid waste, and they are gone up into his cities, and his chosen young men are gone down to the slaughter, saith the King, whose name is Jehovah of hosts.
Eze 25:4 therefore, behold, I will deliver thee to the children of the east for a possession, and they shall set their encampments in thee, and make their dwellings in thee; they shall eat thy fruit, and they shall drink thy milk.
Eze 25:5 And I will make Rabbah a stable for camels, and the children of Ammon a couching-place for flocks: and ye shall know that I am Jehovah.
Lot is not a desendent of Abraham. Read the source from the Bible and not the Quran.
Gen 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
How can Lot be Abraham's desendent when he is Abraham's nephew??
I don't think any Christians can have have any hatred against Muslims if he truely follows the teachings of the Bible. I can safely say the The Bible asks Christians to love all mankind as the Bible teaches thet all menkind are all created in the image of God. True that anti semitism have occurred in Medieval Europe, Russia and parts of the world, but the Bible has never ask its adherents to hate Jews or Muslims. How can it do so, when the Lord Jesus is a Jew??
I just present written materials in the Quran that are used by the terrorist to justify violence against Jews, Christians and infidels.
Some materials are there in the Quran to be interpreted by men reading it. These include the promise of instant paradise for the jihadist, while the rest of mankind has to wait their turn at the last judgement. How else can jihadist interprete the scriptures, however the word jihad is interpreted.
What makes you think your religion is the right one? Islam has a very large share of destruction of other people and religion, and one I can think of now is the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas at Afghanistan. Muslims societies are highly intolerant of other people, namely the non-Muslims and subject them to unfair and discriminatory policies. Read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions
If you're critical of other religions, you shouldn't practice double-standard. Be critical of your religion too.
Dear Yusuf,
You have taken my article out of context.I have never said Islam is the right, better and superior religion nor have I insulted Judaism and Christianity.My article brings forth the chronology of Jewish persecution over the past two millennium by the Roman and Christian.The historical facts proved every religion had it fair share of violence, not only Islam as portrayed by the many anti-Islamic websites, which if you care to visit, will convince you that what I wrote was nothing compared to what those bigots wrote, insulting Mohammed and Islam.
I am not a religious person and I always believe people should take religion with a pinch of salt.If the morons in Islam commit atrocities ,it is not Islam that should carry the blame, it's men that were stupid enough to carry out such archaic commandments in the Koran.
The Old Testament has more verses of violence in it, but the Jews and Christians don't abuse it as an excuse to use their religion to further their cause.They prefer to use politics to engage in war.
Go to http://www.pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com/
and see for yourself how your kind Christians friend behave.
This is a great posting, with such a title can give rise to man of any if not all backgrounds to speak their minds or hearts to the matter. Regardless of the past history, whatever the Old Testament / Bible / Quran says, we are all nothing but the living inhabitants of the earth. No one religion, be it judaism, christian, islam, buddhaism, hinduism, brahmanism, etc condones killing people. Can we stop this: who kills who, who kills what, what kills who, what kills what, who says who, who says what, what says who, what says what and the whats, whys, hows, and buts.
The religions are all compatible, but we human make it incompatible because of how we arrogantly think that our way is the rightest way. Let's not blame Islam or Christians or Jews or Americans or Muslims or Arabs or whomever. Those are words to segregate humankind. Let's look at all the races and natiolities in this world. The people who embrace Islam are called the Muslims and within Muslims they have many school of thoughts and they have their own disagreements. The Christians - some are Americans, some are Mexicans, some are Indonesians and etc. Even some Arabs are Christians. Some Americans are Jews. Some Russians are Christians. Some Brits are Muslim. What does this mean? Does one's race and nationality say about one's religion? Some Muslims are totally against this Osama guy who carries the name of Islam. This means some Muslims are against their own fellows. Similarly to the Americans where some Americans against their own country men. Some Americans disagree to what Bush did. Some Brits opposed to Tony Blair's motion. But what can we do? We have the misguided Muslims. We have the angry Christians. We have the raging Jews. Why cant we make peace?
I read this posting and all the comments above, with sincerity and in no means to judge. All I want to say is that we are the cause of our own actions. God gives us brain with which our intellectual ability is far ahead that separate us from the animals. The religion that we embrace is to guide us to live harmoniously in this world. Quite unfortunate (but this is life) that each one of us is different than the other, as we are educated, exposed and driven by different factors in life. If only we can all learn to love to live and to live to love.
YOU ARE WRONG.IT IS THE CATHOLICS WHO PERSECUTED THE JEWISH NATION.WHY DOESN'T PEOPLE SPEAK OUT ABOUT ROME AND THEIR MURDEROUS GENOCIDES.ROME PAID FOR HITLERS GENOCIDE AND NOW HITLER IS BURIED AT THE VATICAN.AND ASO HITLER DIDN'T DIE AS THE HISTORY BOOKS PUT IT.His death was faked and the catholic church protected him.The jesuits of rome has a way of infiltrating other religions and spreading their luciferian crap and are the root of all evil and wars.It goes back thousands of years.The person that wrote this article needs a history lesson or two
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